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It's getting harder to trust Oxwall store with your money | Forum

Topic location: Forum home » Support » Oxwall Store

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Kenneth Mar 5 '14

Now I know Oxwall isn't the one selling the products however they do hold the store where the products are sold on.

Recently I have noticed many "products" people have bought even if recent just up and disappear. Can people do this? it's getting harder to trust my money in the Oxwall store when you buy a new option for your Oxwall site than they up and disappear without a message or reason as to why.

Can Oxwall set something up where product owners can be informed of why something they bought isleaving the store and no longer being given support? At least some sort of feedback regarding their money spent.

It's the same reason people stop going to services like a fitness center. You give them 100+$ of your money and in a month they just get up and leave with your money.

What started this concern is a few of the things I have bought just vanished after 1.6 release. No messages or warnings just no more support and sometimes stops working unless you go back to 1.5., Other products shortly after that doing the same thing come out which creates frustration that no matter who you buy from they could just take your money over and over until someone sticks around.

Can Oxwall start some sort of contract stating that anything on their store must have support for "these set of days/months/years" or else all users receive a refund.

I'm only asking for this to help protect loyal Oxwall users not to hurt Oxwall developers there are many fantastic developers on Oxwall.

The Forum post is edited by Kenneth Mar 5 '14

Oxwall Accessories Mar 5 '14

I would like to point out our company as well as other company's offer yearly site/plugin/theme support. Oxwall is open source. Developers are 3rd Party. Im not trying to be rude but this is the truth, You get what you pay for. I ignore people complaining about my prices because once they taste my level of customer support they understand what the extra 5 or 10 bucks is for. ;)

The Forum post is edited by Oxwall Accessories Mar 5 '14

Kenneth Mar 5 '14

Quote from OxwallAccessories I would like to point out our company as well as other company's offer yearly site/plugin/theme support. Oxwall is open source. Developers are 3rd Party. Im not trying to be rude but this is the truth, You get what you pay for. I ignore people complaining about my prices because once they taste my level of customer support they understand what the extra 5 or 10 bucks is for. ;)

Never complained about prices :P just wanted a better communication platform for Oxwall customers.

Quote from FoxTechs Our 'Mytags' plugin disappeared from the store upon our request to have it suspended. The amount of people having troubles and reporting multiple bug reports was too large, and we didn't want to keep our 1.5.3 plugin in a store meant for 1.6 plugins.

As I can say about contracts and such, Oxwall can do that but I doubt they will. That would basically be forcing the third-party individual/company into labor on Oxwall as if they were working for a company, that's why no software does things like that.

~Jake

Not saying I disliked mytags it worked for me after I tweaked it.

I understand where you are coming from, Maybe not a forced support. However it would be nice to hear something when updates etc happen. Maybe a subscribe button where it will give you a notification when something changes and/or changes with said developer or product.

Steve Winter Mar 6 '14

It would be good if there were something like "trusted seller" or "verified seller" or something like that. I, personally, have had no problems with any author of any plugin I have purchased.

There is a price, I have a choice whether I feel it is important enough to spend the money.

We certainly don't want to lock out new minds from offering plugins but the veterans who work hard to give great support should also have recognition.

Steve

Pete Mar 6 '14

Quote from Steve Winter
It would be good if there were something like "trusted seller" or "verified seller" or something like that. I, personally, have had no problems with any author of any plugin I have purchased.
There is a price, I have a choice whether I feel it is important enough to spend the money.

We certainly don't want to lock out new minds from offering plugins but the veterans who work hard to give great support should also have recognition.

Steve

I agree Steve .

Kenneth Mar 6 '14

Quote from Steve Winter It would be good if there were something like "trusted seller" or "verified seller" or something like that. I, personally, have had no problems with any author of any plugin I have purchased.
There is a price, I have a choice whether I feel it is important enough to spend the money.

We certainly don't want to lock out new minds from offering plugins but the veterans who work hard to give great support should also have recognition.

Steve

Quote from Pete

Quote from Steve Winter
It would be good if there were something like "trusted seller" or "verified seller" or something like that. I, personally, have had no problems with any author of any plugin I have purchased.
There is a price, I have a choice whether I feel it is important enough to spend the money.

We certainly don't want to lock out new minds from offering plugins but the veterans who work hard to give great support should also have recognition.

Steve

I agree Steve .

I double this,

Kenneth Mar 7 '14

Here is an idea, how about a rating system?

what i mean by this is a few catigories all out of 5 stars

Ease of Use

Cost

Support

etc

This way you would get a good feel for customer support per plugin and how easy it is to install etc.

bobbi Mar 7 '14

like ebays detailed seller ratings, yup +1 kenneth good idea

Jeff Mar 7 '14

I have opened a topic here before requesting to have a ratings system for sellers themselves, not just individual plugins. I don't want to buy from a shitty dev and how will I know if they just released a plugin with no ratings? I specifically suggested ratings just like eBay's seller ratings that you suggested.

I don't know why this hasn't been implemented yet. Devs here seem to be comfotable releasing plugins that are CLEARLY beta that they intend on fixing later (which is fine for free plugins but not paid) or adding additional features later. Plugins shouldn't be released until they are finished and only minor bugs should occur if any. There are many quality plugins in the store but there are also many costing upwards up $25 that are unfinished and unpolished.

Kenneth Mar 9 '14

Quote from bobbi like ebays detailed seller ratings, yup +1 kenneth good idea

Thank you ^_^

Quote from Jeff I have opened a topic here before requesting to have a ratings system for sellers themselves, not just individual plugins. I don't want to buy from a shitty dev and how will I know if they just released a plugin with no ratings? I specifically suggested ratings just like eBay's seller ratings that you suggested.

I don't know why this hasn't been implemented yet. Devs here seem to be comfotable releasing plugins that are CLEARLY beta that they intend on fixing later (which is fine for free plugins but not paid) or adding additional features later. Plugins shouldn't be released until they are finished and only minor bugs should occur if any. There are many quality plugins in the store but there are also many costing upwards up $25 that are unfinished and unpolished.

I can understand why that would be frustrating my biggest issue is buying something than shortly after they tuck tail and run with your money. It is bad enough you pay them, Even worst when you pay them and they just leave the store all together.

#10

John Mar 9 '14

Quote from Kenneth I can understand why that would be frustrating my biggest issue is buying something than shortly after they tuck tail and run with your money. It is bad enough you pay them, Even worst when you pay them and they just leave the store all together.

Hi Kenneth, I seem to be chasing you. I think we really need to look at the big picture: Who is and what is the Oxwall Store and how do they operate?

We seem to have one overworked person looking after the forum and maybe there's just one equally overworked person looking after the store.

I stand corrected, but to have a free plugin accepted by Zen Cart, it has to be fully tested by team members under the most trying conditions. One bug and it's back to the drawing board.

I'm pretty sure Zen Cart's store doesn't promote commercial (paid) plugins and I know Elgg doesn't. Unlike Zen Cart, Elgg seems to list any plugin offered, but I haven't found one that doesn't work - yet.

Because a good Oxwall site will depend on at least one plugin, all plugins should be tested and endorsed by Oxwall to maintain, or retain their credibility. Commercial plugins should be rigorously tested and maybe a refundable fee should be charged and kept if the plugin fails for whatever reason.

If any plugin fails, it's not good for Oxwall.

If a plugin developer fails to service his product, Oxwall should have in place an agreement that allows them to take it over.

Better still, Oxwall should drop the store completely except for free plugins or plugins with a value of (say) $10 or less. They could supply links for the rest, but let the overcharging developers look after themselves. That way, Oxwall could look at the best plugins out there and build them into the core as quickly as possible.

We have this crazy situation where people are working tirelessly to build the core script while (some) others are writing a few lines of code and charging $50.

The tables must be turned.

In my opinion, one of the greatest role models on earth is a program called WYSIWYG Web Builder (http://www.wysiwygwebbuilder.com/)

Here you will see (IMO) the greatest web site design program on earth. It's designed by a Dutchman (I think) and a very small team called Pablo Software. The program is astonishing, but virtually unheard of. It costs under $50 and annual updates cost about $30. Each year they produce three or four free updates with dozens of new features. The annual update is a complete and mind-blowing rewrite. The program is truly amazing, but what's more amazing is this:

They have a massive forum which receives dozens of messages daily. The developer answers every post and any problems you have about the program are answered overnight or within the hour. There's a 250 page manual, the help file is unbelievable and the after sales service is incredible.

The number of high quality and free plugins isn't exhaustive but also fantastic. When you own this program there's nothing else you need.

If Oxwall charged $50 up front and $30 for full version updates, they've got my money. As much as "Open Source" sounds good, being in control is more important!

#11

Kenneth Mar 9 '14

I see what you mean there John, Just means we like to talk about the same things and help people spite differences anyone might have.

I don't mind Oxwall charging a fee to cover extra costs and bring in more control. One thing I have learnt free is always under appreciated. Doesn't matter what form it comes in. People want results and very highly impressive results to boot. I read some of the hurtful things people were saying about Oxwall when they did not meet the deadline for the mobile option then when it did come out people were still complaining about it.

Now back to the plug-in issue, You are right someone could write something super simple. More over could just make a script that pastes embed codes of other peoples work and charge an arm/leg for it. This is un-fair to the hard workers making non-stop improvements to Oxwall and charging 5$ or free. I wouldn't mind paying more for plugins my issue is trust. I payed for a product and shortly after it was pulled from the store and a new one which was friends with the previous plug-in maker was put up at full price was 25$.

Good support or no support I just don't like poor marketing and have started to black list the bad devs on Oxwall not because of their plug-ins but because of their marketing practice (Broken promises, updates blogged about but never see the light of day and tucking tail with no note of it with your money) Plug-in might work but you shouldn't be allowed to false your advertises.

#12

John Mar 9 '14

Kenneth, I've also mentioned the following to Ross who seems to be the forum's chief cook and bottle washer right now:

The forum should have a Plugin Request section where people can ask for specific plugins to be produced. As it is, Oxwall is relying on a wishlist page where half the requests are for Facebook look-alikes and the other half are stuff that's already been implemented. That page needs a huge cleanup because requests that will move Oxwall forward are being swamped by people wanting to put FB out of business.

I've also done some research on the Oxwall team and they're all very young people who may well be influenced by the demands of other young people. It's well known that the squeaky wheel gets the most oil, but sometimes people fail to see the forest for the trees. Oxwall is nowhere near flexible enough to corner the huge market that awaits. It's become a so-so social networking script trying to compete against the big guys, but with just a tiny bit of re-thinking, it can remain that, but also become something else.

We shouldn't be looking at the current users and their complaints, we should concentrate on the thousands of people who look at Oxwall and move on. You have probably seen me asking for help with my problems but I'm persisting. Other people would just give up and go elsewhere, never to pass this way again. Oxwall needs those people and it can only get them by adding much more functionality to the core script through additional Oxwall plugins and giving some of those money hungry plugin developers the flick.

People don't realise it, but most of us will end up paying $100 or more for plugins to get our site off the ground. Little or none of that money goes to the developers which is madness. If the team were doubled and spilt 50-50, we would have 10 people or more churning out plugins, which at $5 a go would pay for the operation.

I love plugins because you can pick and choose. The IPad thrives on them. Every App is a plugin and you can make the IPad anything you want.

Let's see where all this goes because I hope people are starting to listen.

#13

Shaun Mar 9 '14

I have been let down by developers not offering support, it does make you angry and you do get mad at oxwall because by allowing them to sell through their webpage you expect the plugins to be supported.

I very much like the idea of the ebay rating system and I also think devlopers should be forced to list all know plugins that conflict with the one your intrested in buying as they become known.

There are some good developers out there and there are those that i would not touch again no matter how good the plugin looked. Its shame that oxwal is losing credability because of some developers.

#14

Purusothaman Ramanujam Mar 11 '14

Quote from Kenneth Can Oxwall start some sort of contract stating that anything on their store must have support for "these set of days/months/years" or else all users receive a refund.

+ 1 for this

Other issue that I face is that people often say that items from their purchased list disappears suddenly. I have came across this multiple times as users report to me. I do not remove licenses for them.. but still they are missing.

PS: Some even try to create fake id and claim that they don't see the plugin license. I am not mentioning about those crooks. :D

Quote from Shaun I also think devlopers should be forced to list all know plugins that conflict with the one your intrested in buying as they become known.

I don't think this is practically possible as conflicts can only be found if I develop/test my plugin with all other possible plugins out in the store from all other developers. Usually I say in plugin forum if users report for my plugins.

Quote from Jeff I have opened a topic here before requesting to have a ratings system for sellers themselves, not just individual plugins.

Again +1 for this. Nothing wrong being open.

#15

Kenneth Mar 11 '14

Quote from Purusothaman Ramanujam

Quote from Kenneth Can Oxwall start some sort of contract stating that anything on their store must have support for "these set of days/months/years" or else all users receive a refund.

+ 1 for this

Other issue that I face is that people often say that items from their purchased list disappears suddenly. I have came across this multiple times as users report to me. I do not remove licenses for them.. but still they are missing.

PS: Some even try to create fake id and claim that they don't see the plugin license. I am not mentioning about those crooks. :D

Quote from Shaun I also think devlopers should be forced to list all know plugins that conflict with the one your intrested in buying as they become known.

I don't think this is practically possible as conflicts can only be found if I develop/test my plugin with all other possible plugins out in the store from all other developers. Usually I say in plugin forum if users report for my plugins.
Quote from Jeff I have opened a topic here before requesting to have a ratings system for sellers themselves, not just individual plugins.

Again +1 for this. Nothing wrong being open.

I have had nothing but pro service from your plugins.

I even give suggestions and you reply with an honest "yes, I can look into doing this" or "No, it's just not possible" which I can respect blunt honesty.

#16

Purusothaman Ramanujam Mar 11 '14

Thanks for your words. I personally feel there is a lot to be improved for all.

#17

Kenneth Mar 11 '14

Quote from Purusothaman Ramanujam Thanks for your words. I personally feel there is a lot to be improved for all.

Yes, Oxwall is amazing for not only developers but consumers to.

The main issue I see is between the lines. Oxwall is so busy improving their core product that the store hasn't gotten much improvements. Store improvements would help both sides and limit middle man confusion. Users can tell Oxwall, However in the OCSL licence

4.1 Oxwall Foundation (as the original developer of Oxwall software and the owner of The Store) can not be held responsible for any direct or indirect damage caused by using any Goods listed in The Store.

4.2 The Vendor can not be held responsible for any direct or indirect damage caused by using their Goods listed in The Store if The Goods comply with clause 3.3 of these Terms.

4.3 Oxwall Foundation reserves the right to deactivate any and all Goods no longer supported and/or updated by The User.

4.4 The Vendor agrees not to artificially inflate or manipulate The Store ratings and reviews.

These terms get a bit hazy, We can't do anything if the product is no good because this is stated in 4.1 and 4.2. You might say well there is a difference between a bad products and something hurting your site. Well bad products can hurt your site especially if most users use said products etc.

So when do users have grounds? is the only option removal of the product? What is the point other then to save the trouble of more people being cheated.

I think it should state the said product must be operational and updated for at least 6 months minimum.

#18

Kenneth Mar 11 '14

Just do the math

20$ + 5000 users buying = $100000

I don't know the between works of if Oxwall makes any of this. However if the only option is removal of the product with no reimbursements 20$ might not seem like a lot of money however add up the possible buying consumers and you have one happy scam.

#19

Purusothaman Ramanujam Mar 11 '14

Just to add a point.. there will not be 5000 sales if the plugin is not good. So a bad plugin is not going to be sustain for long time.

#20

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It's getting harder to trust Oxwall store with your money | Forum