Welcome back Dave. :) 

Thanks Phil :)   It will take me some time to get up to speed on the new version but im glad to be back. 

i want start a book 
il put $10 on 2 weeks and ur bubble will bust 

LMAO  my mother warned me about girls like you dear lol :)

lol believe none of what u hear and half of what u see 

well two weeks are up.

what can you tell us Dave? :)

Maybe he is going to have to think about his answer Unus....lol.

No, its just i did not expect to walk into a cat fight and with my new health issues i honestly did not want to deal with the BS...    Honestly since my first message i have not even logged into admin or used the site at all.  I had great intentions but as usual my body had different plans for me.   I have to learn now days that i cant make any promises on timelines because i wont be able to meet them and for that i sincerely apologize to everyone.   

I do know that this battle that continues between staff at Oxwall and the users has to stop. I don't know how or when but its total BS and it has to stop.  I don't pretend to have the answers mostly because i don't know the whole story.  But with that said it still has to stop. Some how some way we need to all be a team working together and not fighting each other.    I don't want to hear the "he said she said" BS.  I just want it to stop and for us all to work together.   I am not the same person i was years ago emotionally or physically and i don't want to deal with it and cant deal with the constant bickering between staff and users. 

I am aware there were promises made that were not kept, i am aware that some things may not work, i am aware that not everyone agrees on the direction Oxwall should take.  I am aware of most things, but i still don't want to hear the BS bickering and fighting anymore, its so petty and unprofessional.   

Sorry but i remember how things used to be when we all worked together and i want them back that way again. 

Dave

Chris Sir, 

I am not suggesting that anyone shut up and swallow anything, and i never said that issues were petty.  I was referring to the petty hostility that gets us nowhere.  I am saying that the way we all conduct ourselves is important and the constant fighting is not solving anything.

We all (as consumers) have the same choices regardless of the product or service we use. We can accept how things are and make the best of it until it gets better (making suggestions along the way), we can use a different version of a product or service which best meets our needs and then get a more current version of that product or service later, or we can use a different product or service.

Oxwall is not the only product or service out there that has these same issues.  Almost every product or service i have ever used has suggestions in forums or similar venues that seem to fall on deaf ears.    How many of us have been totally ready to strangle someone on the other end of the line when dealing with so called customer service relating to our computer issues or utility bills including the phone company, there are tons of examples out there. 

My point Chris is that the bottom line of it all falls on Oxwall to perform.  If they do not then they will eventually fail just like any other company.  It also falls on the consumers to continue to offer suggestions along the way in a professional manner.    Once you have let it be known that there is an issue then you have done your part and from that time on it is out of your hands and you must accept that.   If the company decides to ignore that or go a different direction then it is the company who either benefits or loses based on that decision.  

This hostile divisiveness between users and team really serves no purpose other than to just make matter worse.   Remember that no one says that you have to use Oxwall services or their products.  On the other side of the coin Oxwall never promised anything to anyone regarding support other than to provide the product itself in simple terms.  Do you know how many pieces of open source software are out there in which your lucky if you get a reply in 6 months or a year or any at all.    It is not pretty but sadly it has become a part of the open source provision.  

I am not taking sides one way or the other.  I am saying that consumers have the right to choose what they use, and a company has the right to respond to those choices or not and no matter what we do nothing will change those relationships but time and self preservation if it comes to that on either side. 

I hope that helps.  

Dave :) 

     

Chris, 

i don't disagree that some things may be unrealistic but on the other hand has the constant hostility toward any issues really gotten anyone anywhere, not really.  Being passionate about issues and wanting your software to fit your needs is important and should be. However constant badgering and hostile posts don't lead to solutions, working together does and this goes for both sides of the coin. 

So as a consumer you have the right to go up the chain if you wish.  If you are not being satisfied with normal interactions then write the VP, if you are still not satisfied then write the Chairman. 

SMF although good is not really comparing apples to apples here.  They receive substantial support in financial donations, equipment donations, as well as advertising dollars.  I don't see much of that kind of financial support flowing through Oxwall, or at least not publicly.

So we really don't know who gets paid to do what, or who volunteers or who is told to do what by someone else.   I wish that more companies were more public and transparent than they are but my wish is not going to change things and i accept that. 

I noticed that to state an example of good open source support you had to refer to a forum software.  To me that means that all of the social competitors must have much the same challenges as Oxwall or that Oxwall is better than the competitors.  I don't know all the competitors so i would not know about that.   I have used one of the competitors many years ago and it was far worse in my opinion than Oxwall ever has been. 

Being realistic is a state of mind, is it realistic that you have stayed with Oxwall all these years and have been unhappy the whole time, some would say no and some might say yes.   My point is that being realistic about what you use for your web presence to the world  is your choice and every day you make that your choice.   

As a business or consumer you should never put yourself in a situation where you rely on something so much that it could destroy your business or environment if it was no longer available.  You might say that such a statement is also unrealistic however look at all the websites, companies and other entities around the world that have made major changes in their world presense.  

My point to all of this Chris and in every word i say here is that the buck stops with you, if you are not happy then change something, if your clients are not happy then change something.  Sometimes its a royal pain in the ...... to do so, but that comes with owning and running any website or brick and mortar business.   There are times that the only way to get better it through rebirth.   

I wish i had the answers for you, i wish i knew what the plan was or why this or that.  But all of us only know what is made public and so until then we just have to hope that those that are suppose to care do care and show it through their support and accomplishments. And if we are unable to wait for that time then we have to make those tough decisions.  

Social network sites are certainly not the same as they used to be nor are the companies that provide the foundations for them.  My wish is that somehow we can all come together and get back to working things out in a professional way instead of trashing and fighting each other.   But then again i don't run the show, not my own show or anyone elses right now.

:) 

 

WB Dave. Sound like your adapting to your new health states - which is good to hear - keep strong (although obviously you have my sympathy)

I agree with you comments :) +1 from me. Although, admittedly, I can get grumpy too.
 
I can understand the complaints about the alt tags and seo etc- that seems frustrating for those running site where ranking is important. Without the basic tools in place - it kinda makes oxwall an uphill struggle.  When sites rank well, the platform gets more exposure, and that helps everyone, foundation, devs, webmasters, community etc.

I tend to think that, as far as plugin's go, I would like to see proper and full integration with core features. One client, has spent quite a bit of time trying to get plugin de4vs to add mail notifications to a plugin, and cannot understand why such 'core' feature would not be added. I have just aske4d another dev to do similar (which I will happily pay for, as the client needs it badly)

I wonder about a core feature integration checklist for plugins - so that we can see what plugins have what features - perhaps making a kind of 'gold standard' list - which can help devs aspire, and customers have confidence.

Just one thought,

Regards,

Matt

Chris, i do understand where you are coming from, i wish i had better options for you.

Matt, thank you very much for the kind words.   I also agree with some of the concerns and ideas i have seen including yours. I have requests and ideas myself that seem to have fallen on deaf ears as well.  However none of us can control what happens or does not happen which was my whole point all we can do is ask.   I like your idea for the gold standard list :)

Dave :)

I guess this is where I will chime in and say we CAN and WILL control what happens with the development of this software. We all want seo and have been asking for almost 5 years. 

I have seen users get banned over asking for it. I have seen users leave because they are sick of waiting. I have had customers switch software to things that dont even have what they need simply because they can now be found. 

I have many oxwall projects and have helped 1000's of users with there sites. People will not continue to use a product that ignores the most important fundamental part of development. with each day that goes by it is becoming more and more apparent that oxwall doesn't want to help us and has no interest in catering to our needs. It is far more concerned with its pay per use  projects and making more money for itself. 

OA - Have you considered writing a SEO plugin yourself, this is also an option.  I understand your frustration with this but again badgering the developers again and again does not lead to anything productive.  I am sure they are aware of your needs as well as others, all you can do is just let it be known this is what you need.  Once you have done that what else can you do, you cant drive to the Oxwall office and bang on the door demanding SEO.  

I have every confidence that in time it will happen and i understand the need for immediacy however we know this is not how the machine works, there is a whole process that has to happen first. 

If people decide to leave Oxwall in the meantime this is their choice and that should not be a stepping stone for hostile activity.  Just like any consumer they have that right to use what fits their needs most.  Just because a product or service is not an all inclusive "one size fits all" does not justify hostility.  That is not to say that some things don't need fixing, of course they do, but we do not control that process other than to vote or ask for it.

" with each day that goes by it is becoming more and more apparent that oxwall doesn't want to help us and has no interest in catering to our needs"   

This is your opinion and you are obviously welcome to it, but it is your opinion.  

"It is far more concerned with its pay per use  projects and making more money for itself."

This is simply conjecture and without proper factual evidence.  This is exactly the useless type of comments that get us nowhere.   If you want to write hate mail there are plenty of sites which allow you to do that.  This was not meant to be negative in anyway, i just want to stick to whats factual and not baseless. 

I don't know if you know this or not but your link is bad in your profile, it goes to a parked page. Hope you get that sorted :)

I am sure that Oxwall and the people within the foundation that make the decisions can hear our voices.  All we can do is hope they make plans to provide more and more of what the users need going forward.

Dave

Chris, i understand that 5 years as you say is a long time however just saying they must not care is jumping a bit to conclusions i believe.  They must have their reasons, and i don't believe it falls on they don't care.  Now they might feel that at this time it is not priority compared to other priority features being introduced but i am only guessing on that one myself. 

The thing is and again i understand that 5 years is a long time but you have to realize that they cant just toss something in at a whim, there has to be planning, resources, and objectives.   Also understand that SEO is an ever changing object all in itself and it needs to be stable or it becomes a high maintenance issue.  With SEO we are not just talking about tags here its an all inclusive deal.  

It is really no different than budget cuts or lack of approval in government.  Many things may be needed and even greatly needed, but some make the cut and some don't.  That does not mean that people don't care it just means that is the process we have in place and again that is how the machine works.   Unfair maybe, but it is what it is.  And Oxwall is no different and that goes for all ventures including yours.  

Also understand that just because they won't or can't or may not want to or desire (pure speculation) to add SEO to the core does not mean that you have to go without SEO completely, there are SEO plugins.   That might be the very reason that SEO is not included in the core is because it can be accomplished with a plugin as well.

If everything is included in the core then there is no to little need for plugin developers and there goes any customization right out the door. It also means that you must have a larger staff to maintain it all and more resources overall.   

I don't believe that Oxwall devs or management sit around and think about how to tick you off.  I don't think they sit around and think about how to tick anyone off.  I think they either do what they are told to do and have strict guidelines for time management or they are otherwise sanctioned from doing anything elective or outside of certain guidelines or approvals.  I'm sure on a limited budget they probably have to do what is needed to keep the software "core" working its best.   And may have extra resources sometimes to add something mobile or otherwise,  but again this is just speculation on my part. 

You seem to be taking the lack of SEO very personal and you really should not, im sure its not personal. 

Dave

welcome back Dave. your attitude and stand are fair and very welcome I think for this open source community which I think is quite suffering. yes there were quite a few complaints and some of the type you are describing which are not helping nor helpful however you should probably know by now they are not born out of thin air.

I am fairly new to OxWall and I am still here only because I can find my way around (been having tech background) and because I need it for a small site, not medium, small. If anyone would ask me if I recommend OxWall I would but only making it very loud and clear you need to find your way around technically, you need to have a small feature set requirement, a small website or have some money to invest so you can hire a dev to do all this for you.

one thing which I find it missing is lack of communication. in your discourse pattern I see you are making assumptions about the OxWall team and their activity (what they are doing or you think they are doing, what planning they do..., actions, etc). the thing is this transparency is missing, at least I could not find it, about a road map, feature sets, release targets.
if this would be improve the community would know what to expect and what to not expect from this platform and those defining it.

I am looking forward to see this community turning around and continue on successful.

Thanks Unus and i totally agree, the more open communication and more transparency the better.  And i do understand people have real issues here and they are not just new issues. I also apologize if i assumed too much about staff, i try not to and try to keep an unbiased look at everything on both sides.   

Dave :)

We all appreciate your insight and discussion on this, however some similar initiative would be nice from the staff in this discussion. (Or any about new features).

Transparency is key here. The more they tell us and involve us in the development the better it will be. If features aren't added, people will accept it because it would be discussed by everyone, the dev team, 3rd party devs and the customers. 

The more transparent and open they are with us, the more interest, loyalty and investment they'll get in return which will encourage the word to be spread and communities to be created.