It's been a while since I've meddled in the Oxwall community; I haven't really spoke or done anything with you guys since about 1.7.1 - which was a long while ago. Oxwall is now heading for 1.8.3, and that's another entry to the amount of updates that have occurred since I started working with Oxwall (I believe it was like 1.5.3 or something like that when I began using Oxwall), and I got to witness the growth and change of the community; new plugins we'd never thought would come to the platform, several core style changes to the software, more and more plugin developers and theme designers, more community leaders, more third-party projects, etc. It is great; I got to see the software go through style changes, the introduction of the real-time notifications, the introduction of mobile, the new real-time chat, and more.
But through all of this, there's always been something about Oxwall that separates it from the more popular software. While the community grew, and so did the software, the integrity of it all seemed to never change; now that's not necessarily bad but at the end of the day, it makes you feel like there is nothing changing at all, even when you get major updates.
I love Oxwall and I choose it for most of my social products, in part because I know with the correct set up it will run great, and in part because I've been with it for a long time now and it's the software I'm most comfortable and knowledgeable with. But I feel like it isn't aiming for any great future for major expansion or anything of the sort, and I believe it's because of the trend of commercialization.
Now this isn't a typical post that screams "plugins should be free" or "we should be getting free premium support from the Oxwall team," - none of that. As working in business matters many of times, I completely understand where the Oxwall/Skalfa team is coming from: you want to make money and you NEED to make money to keep your products going and maintained, and to stay relevant in a challenging market. And they're not the only team with an open-source software to commercialize; almost all developers do it but I feel the problem with Oxwall's case is it is almost 100% focused on stressing commercialization; whether it be premium plugins or themes, or just the product itself.
What I'm saying in a nutshell, is I felt that, despite all the major updates, Oxwall has never seemed to be promoted on focused on being open-sourced. And this isn't good, as it leaves us as a "use out of box" community with a highly-commercialized free product. Oxwall has a 'Start' page with a few links to resources that fail to completely promote any ideas of creativity or the impact of making your own hacks to the software; the documentation for developing on and for Oxwall is so very sadly unfinished and is hoped to be made up for by a 'skeleton example' plugin. There is so little promotion and encouragement for customization and open-source, yet there's a nicely lied out page for recommend hosts, premium support services, the entire store page, and now Oxwall.com (which removed oxwall.org which I felt may have been not a good idea).
I know many of us have wondered "why do I never see a unique Oxwall site/Oxwall-powered project?" It's not because they exists and people just aren't showcasing - the fact of the matter is that the possibility of customization and open-sourceness is so neglected that nobody has a unique product powered by Oxwall. This is why it continues to have a community that uses 90% of the forum to submit reports or rants about plugins/developers or the software itself.
We got a 'Custom Projects' forum section in like 2013, but even that is now just a landfill of "here's my idea what do you think" posts (which is great for creative discussion but continues to defeat the purpose). Oxwall has and still is quite developer-unfriendly, both development and community wise. Hardly anything is done with Oxwall's open respiratory, barely anyone commits code and scripts for the next release of the software, the only sort of development happening is the plugins and themes in the store and that's about it.
To prove the point, the Custom Code Modifications forum has only one true custom modification; the inserting a user's name into the status placeholder. Oxwall is being highly commercialized and is promoted in a way that those using the software use it like furniture from ikea: all parts in the box, assemble according to directions. And that's not good for a software that is supposed to be "open-source." No matter how many updates we get, if we don't get more developer-friendly documents, development resources, and a more involved community, Oxwall will never become greater than it already is.
/rant, sorry it was a bit of a post. Just wanted to share my thoughts lol
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The future of Oxwall [discussion] | Forum
Leader dave
May 13 '16
+1 Jake i completely agree that there needs to be more attention applied to the customization part of the software. This is one reason why i posted this request
https://oxwall.uservoice.com/forums/13756-ideas-for-oxwall/suggestions/13516527-i-would-like-to-see-a-more-involved-and-easily-acc
For someone just starting out trying to develop a plugin it is a hair pulling task. Even with the skeleton plugin its only very very basic and needs to be updated quite badly. Once you get the hang of it, its quite easy but getting someone new to that point is an uphill battle. Many quit in frustration, many go to another platform, many just hire someone else.
We really do need to not only have a developer support person on staff but you are correct that we need much more documentation and developer tools as well. I cant tell you how many times the only way i was able to perform a task is to research the core script for hours along with using Agent Ransack (which has saved me thousands of hours by itself) and finally was able to figure out how it was done and the proper method track to follow.
So its challenging for someone who knows php, imagine what it is like for someone who knows little but would like to just build a simple plugin over the weekend and brag to their friends about it. That is one way that Oxwall can grow the product by getting people interested in developing not only for the store but also for the core <-- there is a tshirt slogan in that phrase somewhere lol..
So yes i do totally agree with you and in time maybe Oxwall will turn the corner instead of seamingly turning their heads to this sort of thing.
The other thing Jake is that they just released this whole new setup and the leaders new nothing about it, zippo, zilch, nada. We 'leaders' are here to help not only to help with issues but also to help spread the word of Oxwall. So why do they leave us in the dark on such things. I wish there was a special group just for leaders where we could get insider information about upcoming events and releases. It would help us to help others and the bottom line is growth.
I also agree that sometimes it does appear that Oxwall has chosen to only sail in one ocean of the sea. Sometimes its like "attacking the global market" comes second to "lets just do our 8 hours and call it a day" I don't see the contagious enthusiasm about the product from the team that i used to see all the time. I don't see the involvement of the core developers with the public entity.
In a restaurant the cook will come out of the kitchen and ask you how the meal was, which is the way it should be. But it seems here there is a huge wall up between the core developers and the public which is not the way it should be. Instead of feeling like this is "our product" as a group (Oxwall and public) im sure alot of people feel like it is Oxwalls product. It did not use to be that way and somehow it got off track.
I personally see the future of Oxwall as good. But it could be GREAT!!! If they would take down the wall that seems to separate the team from the public so much now days. The worst part is that if i was brand new looking at oxwall i would think that ross as the only team member, myself, and a few other volunteers were the only ones involved in this whole script and that is far from the truth, but that is how it appears to a new interested person.
I am proud to be a leader and proud to use and acknowledge my love of Oxwall but that does not mean that i want Oxwall to rest on past accomplishments and not strive for the next one. They need to remain hungry for the next step.
Thanks for sharing Jake :)
Dave
The Forum post is edited by dave May 13 '16
JB TECH
May 14 '16
Hey Dave,
yes I hope they look into this and continue to always aim for greater heights with the software. After I read your forum post in a different topic you shared with me, and thinking back to my own arguments, I noticed a sort of pattern that is very similar to one I saw a long time ago - with Wall.fm. I was part of the community of Wall.fm for a long while (until I made the switch to Oxwall) and it was great and everyone enjoyed being a part of it; whether they were free users or not. And then the community started to see less and less participation from the moderators and then eventually (this was by the time I was part of Oxwall and not Wall) Wall.fm had gone premium only and the entire community forum was removed to promote the "premium support" that came with purchasing Wall.fm plans - Wall.fm doesn't exist anymore.
I'm seeing something similar with Oxwall, and I've been seeing it for a while but didn't feel the need to address it until now; I can't repeat enough of how its important to emphasize "open-source" in this time when Skalfa/Oxwall Team is going hardcore premium promotion and support service.
And not only that, but it's in a time when the community is pretty much dead. Looking at the forums, it's mostly you posting anything Dave and an occasional, vague and short answer from Ross once in a while. My proof for this statement is the beta testing: when we were finally given beta testing roles all of us developers and leaders and enthusiasts ate it up; I remember the first time we did a beta test, the forum had at least 6 or 7 pages worth of discussions, bug reports, questions and more. Now, when I go to check the beta forum I see the default 'copy/paste' changelog-style post pinned to the top and nothing else; no one is contributing to the beta tests anymore.
As far as I see it, Oxwall as an open-source software is dying; it's community fades more the more the software is commercialized and the more the team becomes dedicated to branding rather than support and development.
As for being left in the dark from support (which seems to be strictly Ross only now), we're either to expect a long big answer to all of our concerns or they 1) didn't read our concerns and/or 2) read but went back to their work. It's quite a shame too, since Oxwall had and can still have the potential to be a world-reknown and powerful social software developers and users could love together.
yes I hope they look into this and continue to always aim for greater heights with the software. After I read your forum post in a different topic you shared with me, and thinking back to my own arguments, I noticed a sort of pattern that is very similar to one I saw a long time ago - with Wall.fm. I was part of the community of Wall.fm for a long while (until I made the switch to Oxwall) and it was great and everyone enjoyed being a part of it; whether they were free users or not. And then the community started to see less and less participation from the moderators and then eventually (this was by the time I was part of Oxwall and not Wall) Wall.fm had gone premium only and the entire community forum was removed to promote the "premium support" that came with purchasing Wall.fm plans - Wall.fm doesn't exist anymore.
I'm seeing something similar with Oxwall, and I've been seeing it for a while but didn't feel the need to address it until now; I can't repeat enough of how its important to emphasize "open-source" in this time when Skalfa/Oxwall Team is going hardcore premium promotion and support service.
And not only that, but it's in a time when the community is pretty much dead. Looking at the forums, it's mostly you posting anything Dave and an occasional, vague and short answer from Ross once in a while. My proof for this statement is the beta testing: when we were finally given beta testing roles all of us developers and leaders and enthusiasts ate it up; I remember the first time we did a beta test, the forum had at least 6 or 7 pages worth of discussions, bug reports, questions and more. Now, when I go to check the beta forum I see the default 'copy/paste' changelog-style post pinned to the top and nothing else; no one is contributing to the beta tests anymore.
As far as I see it, Oxwall as an open-source software is dying; it's community fades more the more the software is commercialized and the more the team becomes dedicated to branding rather than support and development.
As for being left in the dark from support (which seems to be strictly Ross only now), we're either to expect a long big answer to all of our concerns or they 1) didn't read our concerns and/or 2) read but went back to their work. It's quite a shame too, since Oxwall had and can still have the potential to be a world-reknown and powerful social software developers and users could love together.
JB TECH
May 14 '16
Not only are developers being neglected, but there are still ongoing problems on the community that are community made that need to be addressed. I notice a large amount of discussion and posts on the forum are users complaining about and/or throwing other user(s)/developer(s) under the bus.
-There's a language barrier here; the community is made up of all people all over the world and so having a few language-specified forums aren't really seeming to help
-Many new community members don't have the access to find solutions and answers to many questions they have (questions that are commonly asked)
I also noticed this trend of single people using the facade of a "company" to sell plugins. I believe if you're making plugins on your own, sell them as yourself; too many users are making these "companies" to sell plugins/themes and by being individuals, support and language barriers and more can get in the way which leads to more folks making complaint posts.
-There's a language barrier here; the community is made up of all people all over the world and so having a few language-specified forums aren't really seeming to help
-Many new community members don't have the access to find solutions and answers to many questions they have (questions that are commonly asked)
I also noticed this trend of single people using the facade of a "company" to sell plugins. I believe if you're making plugins on your own, sell them as yourself; too many users are making these "companies" to sell plugins/themes and by being individuals, support and language barriers and more can get in the way which leads to more folks making complaint posts.
Leader dave
May 14 '16
Yeah Jake same here. You know even as a leader i have to maintain my perspective that although i care about Oxwall and want people to use it. It is not my company or foundation and the bottom line is that "if" Oxwall wanted to run this into the ground and grab as much cash as they can in the mean time then i am powerless to stop that. All i can do is stand on the shore and solute it as it disappears under the waves.
That would certainly be a sad sad day but it is their choice. I guess sometimes i do get a little fussy myself about things around here, probably more than i should. But it's because i care and if i didn't care i would not be here. And i know that alot of other users care as well so in a way i feel that i have to fight for them as well. To be their voice when they feel they have no voice.
I am careful not to push too hard, but just enough to let those who make the decisions know that they have people depending on them every day and they need to strive to live up to that responsibility.
I am still very hopeful that whatever is happening behind closed doors at the foundation is just a phase and will correct itself over time. If not then maybe Oxwall will go by another name one day, who knows. I really wish that i was in a situation to be able to purchase Oxwall Foundation because it has so many wonderful things going for it that are not being marketed effectively if at all. I know that with my leadership and the help of the community and team as "one", Oxwall could dominate the world market.
The Forum post is edited by dave May 14 '16
OW-Ghost
May 25 '16
""""For someone just starting out trying to develop a plugin it is a hair pulling task. Even with the skeleton plugin its only very very basic and needs to be updated quite badly. Once you get the hang of it, its quite easy but getting someone new to that point is an uphill battle. Many quit in frustration, many go to another platform, many just hire someone else.
We really do need to not only have a developer support person on staff but you are correct that we need much more documentation and developer tools as well. I cant tell you how many times the only way i was able to perform a task is to research the core script for hours along with using Agent Ransack (which has saved me thousands of hours by itself) and finally was able to figure out how it was done and the proper method track to follow.
So its challenging for someone who knows php, imagine what it is like for someone who knows little but would like to just build a simple plugin over the weekend and brag to their friends about it. That is one way that Oxwall can grow the product by getting people interested in developing not only for the store but also for the core <-- there is a tshirt slogan in that phrase somewhere lol.. """
I have thinking about make plugins because i like programming but i have read many post like this that it is hard if you not know so much about php.
And the problem is that i need spend all my time now try SEO my site for bee visible on google.
When i done with that maybe i will try use this skeletton plugin and give it a try as a totally amatuer and i have 100 of ideas to make cool plugins :)
The Forum post is edited by OW-Ghost May 25 '16
Leader dave
May 26 '16
Marcus over time i have developed a kind of template that i start with, it makes it easier to begin without having to do all the ground work first. So that is what you need to do also is over time develop a template that you can just copy and paste and then start working on it. It is sort of confusing at first if you are not familiar with classes, php, and the understanding of how it flows. But we are ere to help you when you are ready. :)
OW-Ghost
May 26 '16
Okey cool :) I will do it when my SEO is much better my site is a big mess now and have been for over 1 year because i did not know so much about SEO.
- it have broken links (try to solve today or this week)
- not visible on google on all languages (no hreflangs)
- no good sitemap (solved did use https://www.xml-sitemaps.com/ )
- need create pages for every language (working on it, but i need learn create pages in html)
- need wait a oxwall developer help me with things that take very long time to solve with some permalink or im not sure what he going to try do but he is a smart guy here at oxwall.
-i need implement hreflangs in headers area when he solved the permalink issue or what ever he try do for make my site multilingual. i trust that he knows what he doing
When i search more and more on internet i understand more and more my self how seo is working and how you need bee visible and optimaze your website. and it is fun to learn but sad to see i lose so much time of my life doing it by my self more then 1 year many things what i do now could been on guides here at oxwall for help people that have same SEO problem like me.
I always says:
My success is they success and i feel that is true 100%
The Forum post is edited by OW-Ghost May 26 '16
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