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Let's Make Oxwall Great Again. | Forum

Patricia Zorrilla Leader

I approve the profiles one by one, thus avoiding spam.


All the variants of OxWall that have been published I have compiled them there, there are interesting things and others not so much, I do not want them to be lost so that anyone can learn or take advantage of part of the code.

I am compiling different patches and checking their operation, but as I am at the moment alone I don't see the need to have anything on GitHub.

If developers are interested in collaborating, we will.


Alexander
Alexander Jan 15
Well, if you do start a public repo, send me a message - I'll be happy to share my Oxwall core fixes/improvements there. :)


I can see there have already been a few attempts at making Oxwall forks that were later abandoned. Maybe it's worth a try to gather their changes (assuming they're not very global) into one project and make a new Oxwall fork that will actually be supported and updated. Just gotta maintain backwards compatibility with the old Oxwall and its plugins and themes.

AppXprt
AppXprt Jan 31
Not sure if forking Oxwall is the answer at this point. Talk to Dave about this topic or search for his opinion in posts on the forums. Honestly, we need a new system. Maybe not even a framework, but something even newer. Most successful platforms are custom engineered. Also, with PWA being discussed in this forum, it may be on its ways out as well, at least for firefox:
https://m.slashdot.org/story/381352
The Forum post is edited by AppXprt Jan 31
Rob
Rob Jan 31

Dear users and of course also the developers (if they are still really active here).


In my opinion, it is the biggest mistake of Emil Sarnogoev and Oxwall employees, that they no longer pay attention to this part of Oxwall.

The platform is absolutely good but of course outdated and external developers should be given the free hand to improve this outdated platform so that it can last a longer time, and more developers may also feel called to develop plugins and themes.


But this may be utopian from my point of view.

Forks based on Oxwall have always come to nothing, so that's not an option I guess.?

Either way, this is the opinion of a user and not a developer.

Patricia Zorrilla Leader

I'm still making plugins, like the one in the image, but I'm not going to put them up for sale here, as we already know that they are given to SkaDate users "so they can try them for free".

You already have version 1.8.7 of OxWall available for download, many recovered plugins and some reedited.

Take a tour of https://owspain.com


Rob
Rob Feb 1

I know that you are still very active in developing and possibly adapting.

What I meant was that at the top of Oxwall is it terribly wrong and they are very stupid to break down this platform.

But if they are no longer interested because they want to orient themselves in the business area, they may have this part sold (actually it is only reasonable that they hand it over for free) to a developer or a group of developers who are excited about this platform.


I'm by the way interested in the store plugin, but I already told you that.

The colors in the plugin, on the other hand, I am not charmed by that, but that is personal and it will depend on theme.?


In short, just a huge shame that it is being neglected here and Emil Sarnogoev should be aware of that and take action on it.

As an entrepreneur, I cannot bear to see how the Oxwall company deals with it.!

That they give away plugins to skadate users is very rude in my opinion (expressed lightly).!

dave Team
dave Feb 1

Rob, he is aware and sadly he is acting on it (by doing nothing). 


As one of my favorite bands clearly said it...


If you choose not to decide

You still have made a choice!


and that explains this situation we are in. 

Alexander
Alexander Feb 3

Quote from AppXprt Not sure if forking Oxwall is the answer at this point. Talk to Dave about this topic or search for his opinion in posts on the forums. Honestly, we need a new system. Maybe not even a framework, but something even newer. Most successful platforms are custom engineered. Also, with PWA being discussed in this forum, it may be on its ways out as well, at least for firefox:https://m.slashdot.org/story/381352
Yeah, I know about dave's project and sincerely wish him luck with it. However, my situation is that I already have an oxwall-based website, which is heavily customised and with a lot of hard work put into it over a period of over 3 years. Redoing my website with a new CMS/framework (which also needs to be built from scratch) is just not the kind of endeavour I'm looking for now. :)


However, if someone created an actually supported and maintained oxwall fork, I would be willing to use it and contribute to it. Switching to an oxwall fork wouldn't require redoing my website from scratch, and my website could benefit from the fork's updates and contributions.

dave Team
dave Feb 4

Hi Alexander, thank you for the kind words on the project... Yes i believe we spoke briefly awhile back and you had mentioned your customized website.


As much as you dont want to have to change frameworks, i am concerned about the current framework.   Its quite ok to see things from different perspectives and i am not trying to convince you one way or the other..  However i would like to make a few points that  you at least need to consider as a site admin, and you may have already. 


There were two main reasons i decided to do a new project from scratch.  And those are the owners business decision regarding oxwall and ownership.


For example... lets say that i forked oxwall and made my copy beautiful, all the bells and whistles and it was up to date and glorias again.  If the owner of oxwall decides to take the site down and it goes dark, i would be totally screwed legally.  Some people dont understand that abandonment in the digital world does not mean transfer of ownership, or hey i can do what i want now... that is not the case. 


All the time i hear people say this and say that about doing their own copy of oxwall,  but they dont fully accept that Emil owns the code inside and outside, and if he takes it down, unless we have written permission from him none of us can use it after that.  He still owns it and if he takes it away then all of us have to legally stop using it. 


Now wether people care about the legal aspects or not, that is not my deal, i am not the oxwall sherrif.  But i will not break the law, my reputation is too important to me to do anything of the sort.  


So that is something that we all have to consider while we are in this challenging time.  Do we read the writing on the wall or do we walk past it and hope for the best.   Admins have to make that decision for themselves and for their users.  


They also have to decide what is the damage ratio if the worst does happen.  Do we just tell our users "hey sorry we will be back in a month when we find something else"  or do we make plans now to survive later.  It is a very hard decision and it is different for everyone involved.  


Anyone that is doing anything to help oxwall customers has my support.   Myself and patricia are not competetors at all.  I just see the future one way and patricia sees it another way..  There is nothing wrong with that.  When the time comes one of us will need to make some of our own choices regarding the future of our investment.  


But as a whole its all about being prepared for the unknown and that much myself, patricia and others share.   And whatever your decision you have my support as well..  :)

The Forum post is edited by dave Feb 4
Patricia Zorrilla Leader

I don't want to "compete" with anyone. I don't want to make money out of it. I just don't want OxWall to disappear.

I have created an alternative site where:

- Old plugins (Aron, Purus...) are compiled so that they are not lost, you can download them for free, and those that require a license, OxWall will ask for it, and those that do not require it, they are free.

I have not modified any of them, they are as they have been published and I just publish the latest version I can find, and I also have all the previous versions in case someone needs them for something, for example you can study how the "mobile version" was added to a plugin that did not have it.

- Recent plugins from developers who have not wanted to put them for sale there are advertised (not available for purchase).

- Recent plugins that the developers have put on sale there are sold, they charge 100% directly.

- All the content I have collected from GitHub is offered for free.

- We offer the possibility to test any plugin or theme on a trial installation of OxWall

- We offer the possibility to sell "patches" (or publish them for free)

- I'm testing the plugins and commenting on them.

It is very entertaining to collect plugins, to write about each one, to collect photos... I'm doing it little by little, nobody has offered to collaborate and for the few downloads and visits I'm not in a hurry.

I'm trying to gather developers for future versions of the core, but if nobody has downloaded OxWall 1.8.7 yet and there is so little interest at the moment, I'm not going to publish an improved version.

The developers I have written to have not even bothered to reply.

OxWall users who have contributed patches, opinions, suggestions? None.

OxWall users to whom I have helped, customized things for free or at nominal prices, don't bother to comment either.

I don't know what else you want. I spend many hours on https://owspain.com and I pay all the expenses.

If OxWall.com were to disappear... it's all foreseen, you would just have to validate your licenses there.

I don't think there is any more work in development for OxWall, except Dave's project, but I think it will take a long time because he is also alone and for a single person to create a whole social network engine that equals or improves what OxWall already achieves is very difficult and will take a long time.


dave Team
dave Feb 4

I am glad to hear that patricia, it takes  people like us to make things happen :) 


By the way you do all know that it appears oxwall closed their twitter account. The link does nothing.   If they did then that is another part of the writing on the wall.


Oh, i also wanted to mention something about my project that i dont think i ever mentioned before.  For those of you that are concerned about longevity incase something happens to me and you are considing my project.   When it is all done i plan to offer it up for sale, i am hoping that some corp entity or some startup group  will take it over..  


If that happens then you dont have to worry, the longevity will be there.. They are not going to invest in something like this to just let it go...  So if any of you would be interested in purchasing it, i would be glad to work with you on a fair market price.  


I originally was not going to sell it but since i am getting older and already have health issues, i think that is the smart move to make with users in mind, that way its not about one person anymore, youll have a whole host of people to help you and keep it updated.   :)


If i sell it i do plan to give some back to the volunteers that helped with the language translation.





The Forum post is edited by dave Feb 4
Vitaliy
Vitaliy Feb 6
good news, lets do this together! Scripts are working fast now good job!
Ken
Ken Feb 6
Patrica sweet heart make your store plugin have all store basic features and also able to bulk list items thru excel upload extensions, previous and next item, related items, and sync with eBay or Amazon affiliate stores and no store plugin can touch you.....
Alexander
Alexander Feb 7
Quote from dave

All the time i hear people say this and say that about doing their own copy of oxwall,  but they dont fully accept that Emil owns the code inside and outside, and if he takes it down, unless we have written permission from him none of us can use it after that.  He still owns it and if he takes it away then all of us have to legally stop using it.

I'm not a legal expert, but, according to the Oxwall license published at https://developers.oxwall.com/license, I don't see any clauses that would allow Emil or anyone else to take down my (or anyone else's) Oxwall-based website.


I also don't see how Emil could legally and technically enforce shutting down an Oxwall website in another country (e.g. Spain or Russia), which doesn't have the same laws as US and which wouldn't even accept a lawsuit from a citizen of another country.


Lastly, I don't see any motivation for Emil to start shutting down Oxwall websites, seeing how he moved to other ventures and doesn't seem to care about Oxwall anymore. What does he stand to gain from pursuing Oxwall owners, suing them in court (which costs both time and money) and telling them "give it back, it's mine"?


Considering all of the above, I really don't see any considerable risks of not being able to use Oxwall or its forks in the future. Certainly not to the extent of spending time to move my site to another CMS/framework just for the sake of avoiding that eventuality. But that's just my opinion, your mileage may vary. :)


Quote from dave

By the way you do all know that it appears oxwall closed their twitter account. The link does nothing.   If they did then that is another part of the writing on the wall.

Both their Twitter accounts seem to work fine for me, albeit they haven't been updated for a long time.

https://twitter.com/oxwallsoftware

https://twitter.com/oxwallsupport

The Forum post is edited by Alexander Feb 7
Alexander
Alexander Feb 7
Quote from Patricia Zorrilla

I'm trying to gather developers for future versions of the core, but if nobody has downloaded OxWall 1.8.7 yet and there is so little interest at the moment, I'm not going to publish an improved version.

The developers I have written to have not even bothered to reply.

Granted, I'm not a well-known developer around these parts, and I haven't published any of my plugins (yet), but I think it's a little unfair to say that there's no interest from the developers, considering I've already offered my help. I just need a link to a repo to submit my commits to.


On the topic of repos and 1.8.7. Patricia, earlier you said "There is currently no repository on GitHub for OxWall development". Now I see 1.8.7 has been published in the official (?) Oxwall repo: https://github.com/oxwall/oxwall/releases/tag/core-1.8.7.


So I have a few questions about this "1.8.7":

1) Considering it's published in an official (?) Oxwall repo, does that mean that Oxwall wasn't truly abandoned and its official development continues?

2) If it is official, why isn't this update published anywhere on the official website, or offered on Oxwall websites as a core update option?

3) Whether it's official or not, does that mean the the repo https://github.com/oxwall/oxwall/ is active, that there are people there who can accept merge requests, and that Oxwall core commits can be submitted there?

dave Team
dave Feb 7

Im not sure about the repo myself, i did a commit but nothing ever happened with it.  And who knows who is even watching over the people commiting, are they checking the code or is it just POST values flying around like candy...   Me personally i would not install that github version for any amount of money unless i had knowlege about what was going on... and you seem to want to know the same, which is good.


Regarding the license, your right noone is going to chase after anyone half way across the world for this cheap script..  But you might be surprised what some of the large companies will and can do and how long their arms are.  For example a hacker on a game like battlefield.  I was told directly from a EA staff member that they use Interpol all the time and have lots of inside connetions in lots of countries to find people and prosecute them. 


But your right, the chance of that happening in this case is NULL at best.  The bottom line is we all have to live with how we run our lives and we all have life rules we live by, and they are all different.   :)


I dont want to risk my reputation that i have spent many years working hard to achieve over some opensource project.  Here is the thing we all have to remember, if we cant do the little things right and with honor, then eventually people start to wonder if maybe we cant do the big things too.  I would rather be clean than even alittle bit dirty.. 


I am not saying im perfect heck no i make mistakes all the time, but i never intentionally touch what is not mine or take away from someone just because i can...  That does not mean that im better than anyone else, just that those are the rules i have chosen to live by.. :)


When i gave my opinion i guess i was thinking everyone was like me and would just do the gentlemenly thing if they ask and remove it out of respect.  But i guess there are just as many people that feel like "come and get me if you can" as well.  And thats ok, we all march to a different drum.. :)


I am not speaking for patricia but I dont think patricia wants to use github, she had a problem with it before and so did others, there were some parts i liked but most of it i didnt.  We stopped using it because it corrupts files.





The Forum post is edited by dave Feb 7
Patricia Zorrilla Leader

In GitHub OxWall is publishing something, very few, and does not bother to launch "updates" so that OxWall users can keep updating.

The last version published here was 1.84 but on GitGub there have been 1.85, 1.86 and currently 1.87.

I have them all. You do not trust? Well, it is very simple. You can use a program like WinMerge (free), select the folder where you have 1.84 and 1.87, press "compare" and it makes a list of the differences.

You'll see that not so many things change. Some bug, some SQL sequence that has been quoted to work correctly in MariaDb, some new event and little else.

If you have a copy of the latest version of SkaDate, you will see that they are the same files ... except that in SkaDate there are some that are not in OxWall.

Do you want to see OxWall 1.87 running on PHP7.4? https://asociaciontrekkie.es

It is an insult to the OxWall community that updates are not published, neither of OxWall nor of the plugins. For example the membership plugin (which is very expensive) here is an old version (10800). Do you want the latest (11110)? In owspain you have it, free, look at the image.


Another example, the plugin "photo" (10800), you have version 11000 there (original from GitHub) and as a patch the 11001 that I have made with modifications that have been requested several times in this forum.



OxWall does not support any kind of contributions on GitHub, you can only "read".

Yes, of course I can open a repository on GitHub, public or private because my account is paid there, but why am I going to do it if no one is interested in sharing or publishing anything?

For the small changes that there are, I am already compiling them at https://owspain.com, but nobody comments, nobody downloads. It's free. I invite you, Alexander, to participate in that forum, to post your modifications to discuss them, you can even sell them as a patch.


I get tired. You complain about problems with PHP> 5.6, spam, lack of updates, you complain about the store, you complain about OxWall, I offer you an alternative and it is not interesting.

Why am I going to publish a patch with the improvements I have for version 1.87 if no one has installed it? Not even downloaded. Currently I have uploaded 231 products to the store and have 886 more to upload. Nobody helps, almost nobody cares. For example Dave uploaded 2 plugins out of 11 that he has. SeniorDeveloper 0, Artmedia 0 ... I'll upload them myself.

Alexander
Alexander Feb 7
Quote from Patricia Zorrilla

Well, it is very simple. You can use a program like WinMerge (free), select the folder where you have 1.84 and 1.87, press "compare" and it makes a list of the differences.

It's actually much simpler - you can just compare two versions on GitHub. Here's the link: 
https://github.com/oxwall/oxwall/compare/core-1.8.4...core-1.8.7


Comparing to local files is not really simple for people like me, who have a modified core, because the comparison would also display my own code modifications. Also, if we are talking about core patches, when multiple people patch the same file and publish their own version of it (via owspain.com, for example), their modifications would overwrite each other.


So, while with just one contributor it's okay to post core updates as .rar archives on a site, I don't think it's a good idea with multiple contributors.

Patricia Zorrilla Leader

Well, when we are several developers we will agree to organize ourselves.

There are also alternatives to GitHub

dave Team
dave Feb 7
My apologies Patricia, i will get more plugins uploaded. :)  You are doing a good thing, dont let the temporay lack of interest get in your way, it will come, just takes time  :)
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