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No Oxwall Development - Its time to decide! | Forum

dave Team
dave Aug 19

Hey everyone, this might be a long post but its very important.   I wont bore you with all the email details other than to say i have finally gotten an answer to my question regarding Oxwall Development and i wanted to share this with you. 


None of the following changes my passion for helping you on the forum and otherwise. I will continue to do my tasks here on Oxwall with professionalism and pride until Oxwall is no more.. You have my word on that.  The following does NOT change that personal mission of mine.


Preface:


More than a month ago i sent Emil (owner of Oxwall) a email asking about updating Oxwall because time is running short on it even functioning any further out of the box.    Emil wrote me back and stated he needed a few days to speak with the team on the issue.


Approx 10 days after that, i sent a follow up email.  (no reply)


Then just over 10 days ago i sent a third email.  This last one was heartfelt, it was passionate about Oxwall, it was passionate about YOU braving the challenges over the last 4+ years, it was passionate about him making a public announcment one way or the other.   I begged him to take some kind of action one way or the other and take a stance for the users who have remained loyal all this time.  I inquired about the free version and offered to take it over from him and further develope it. I am saddened to say that once again it has fallen on deaf ears with no reply.


The reason i am writing this now and not sooner is because i wanted to give Emil every opportunity to do something.  I found out today that such emails are not a new thing.  Others in the past have also pleaded with Emil many times in the same way to show some loyalty, grace, commitment, and character.  Sadly ALL  of that has also fallen on deaf ears. 


So in my opinion, no longer does Emil need to say anything, he has already spoken by not speaking.  So now i am 99% sure that there will be no further development of Oxwall and in particular the free version which is what most of us use now. 


Please understand that this is NOT about being mad at Emil, he made a business decision, it is his property and he can do with it as he wishes, even if it is doing nothing at all, that is his right.   This is about the challenge ahead of us and how we move forward.  Emil has a number of investments and he made a choice to move his resources to other ventures.  I dont fault him for the business decison, we all have to survive.  I wish he had been more transparrent about those decisions, but that is not the case.  There is nothing we can do about that.


So Now What!


So now the time has come to decide what we do.  You need to decide what you do in your own situation.   How do we move forward with our investments.


Here are your options:


I am not being negative here, i am giving you hard reality and facts!


1. If you stick with the current environment, you will experience more and more issues.  And just like the past, without developement authority all anyone can do is put a bandaide on it and hope that it will continue to perform for alittle longer, with no confidence if the site will go dark or not.


Even if you fork the script and do your own white label version, it will always be a version of Oxwall that you do not have developement authority over. In other words it will never be an official new release.  And there is no plan at this time to ever release a new version.


2. If you move to something else on the market now, then you stand the chance of losing your data and all your investment.  It will be very difficult to find smooth import options to move your data over to something new because those options are limited.  Its never easy to start over. 


3. Build something new from scratch that will meet all your needs, and commit to the growing pains that follow. In the end you will be better off.


Those are your choices, but many of you have had many years to think about this moment.  


Here is my feeling:


If you are thinking about the short term, here today gone tomorrow, then choose option 1.  You will get some mileage out of it until it fails or gets shut down. 


If you have not invested much in the way of time or resources in your project then choose option 2.  Better now than later.


However, and this is my recommendation:  If you think long term then choose option 3, join me and lets work on something that will meet our challenges.


My idea is to build a new fresh core, nothing from Oxwall will be used, it will all be new, current coding standards.  You can read about my idea at this site socboxcore.com


As a team member i am NOT permitted to build a white label of Oxwall as it would be a conflict of interest.  However i am permitted to build something outside of oxwall.   This is another reason why this makes sense.


The new core will have features that we do not have now such as easy import and export, bridges to other software and better custom pages with more options, a focus on both desktop and mobile communication and features, with mobile being the more important focus.  You will be able to use your current plugins with some minor adjustments or the devs can convert them over to the new plugin process which wont be difficult.   You will also have a new store with more current features and commitments by devs.  We will build a new team.


I could go on and on but none of this mean anything if no one is on board with it.  If no one really cares and you just want to stay where you are until the tires fall off then why waist my time building something new and exciting. 


This option comes with growing pains and will take time to develope. I am doing this for all of you, but if its not what you want then tell me.



In summary:


So lastly i ask you... what do you want to do?  


If its option 3, do i have volunteers to build a team? 


Thanks Dave  :)

The Forum post is edited by dave Aug 19
Sumate-RelajoSoft
Hi Dave, how sad to hear all that, unfortunately I do not consider myself an advanced developer to help in that project, but I give you all my support and I wish everyone who joins the project luck.
Marcus
Marcus Aug 19
what are the requirements to become part of team
We The People United We Stand

AMAZING, I am proud of your humbled selflessness need to help others.


THAT IS VERY PROFOUND to say the least.


As you know my coding skills, at best, is a beginner.  I have learned soo much from you. I have been extremely motivated in learning about coding again, because of you.


For that, I want to say, thank you.  I may have a long way to go, but I am proud of how far I have gotten, because you you.


I am an old school-er.  I was into programing back when it was a thing.  The commodore 64, Amiga, the Vic 20 lol.  I loved making programs etc.  Sadly as time went by programming became automated to a degree that it made many people lazy, including myself. Like with most things I just submitted to the automated way.


Soo many people lost sight that it is because of people like you that we have what we have.  Because of people like you, we are able to be lazy.


Anyway, I am rambling.  Again, thank you for everything you have done thus far.  We have spoken numerous times and my gut feeling is that it is time for you to make a bigger mark in the web community. 


Just know that at bare minimum I am a fan of yours. I will always cheer you on.  Its not much, but I want you to know that you are well appreciated. 


FYI- If you become another Bill Gates dont forget about me LOL.


Be well and know that you have supporters.
dave Team
dave Aug 19

@marcus


right now its willing to invest the time, everyone knows how to do something very well.  All skills are needed.    As for other talents there may be different requirements needed to help keep the project secure and legal, but right now im just looking to create an original list of interested people and we can go from there.


@WTPUWS

Thank you so much for your kind words.  It means so much to me to know my efforts do touch people in good ways and that it helps them in their journey.  :)



Here is the thing folks that i need to make clear to everyone so you know the risk. Lets say for example we all decided that we want to keep pushing along here.  And as a  hypothetical situation lets say we were able to get a github going on our own for official release(with permission) and we posted our own new releases here on the site.   It would seem to some that would be enough... 


But its not enough, we still dont have and wont get the permissions (verbal or access wise) we need to develope the store or other parts of oxwall in order to be sucessful at a development attempt.  We might be able to squeeze more time out of it but each and every day we would be worried, is this the day they pull the plug.  Remember, they (oxwall owners) have control not us.  Its just not a comfortable environment to develope in not having full access (ownership) to the parts that need improvment.


I hope that makes sense as to why i think option 3 is best for many of us.







The Forum post is edited by dave Aug 19
David
David Aug 19
" All skills are needed. " - Ummm... in that case... I can make Pepperoni Rolls.  My wife taught me.  As for PHP... I only know enough to get by... which sorta sucks.... I want to help.
dave Team
dave Aug 20
Thats great David... thanks    but i heard there is a national pepperoni shortage so you may have to divy those topping up sparingly...  :)
Patricia Zorrilla Leader

There's a lot of work ahead.

I'll collaborate in everything I can, and I think there's room for everyone because anyone who doesn't know how to program can test that everything works, suggest changes and more.

Cheer up, Dave, we're with you!

Dev Forward
Dev Forward Aug 20
I think there are a few things that could be done which would lend a lot more legitimacy to a project like that.


1: A legally chartered non-profit organization, with a commitment to creating a permanently free and fully open-source application. In the US, this would probably mean a 501(c)(3).


2: If it were not under the control of a single person, but rather a small board. That way no single person can derail the entire project.


3: If it were released under a highly permissive license, such as the Apache License.


4: No attached store. If people want to create plugins, let them. But the non-profit development organization should not be involved in the buying and selling of plugins.


If those conditions were met, I think a lot more people would be willing to lend their support.

The Forum post is edited by Dev Forward Aug 20
dave Team
dave Aug 20

Thanks patricia and DF, good  stuff from both..


I already have an LLC we can use but i am not financially prepared to start a new business. Especially in my state its very expensive from what i understand.  But yes i agree the 501c3 non profit would be the way to go. 


If we make this a lagitiment entity then we will have to have a operating agreement and i am not prepared to write a new one at this time.  The last time i did one it was 40 pages long and i am alot older now and slower lol..


But i do agree there needs to be more than one person holding the keys and is responsible.  But part of doing this means putting together alot of legal docs and having them all notorized, and from people all over the world.  Yes its the right way to do it but does this project require such level of authority, im not sure how i feel about that yet, its a big question.


The plan is to not have this as an open source, but a closed source free release. The closed source will provide some extra security which is one of the big issues we have been facing here and im thinking its the right move for now. 


We will make our money from other resources related to the script but not the script itself.


The store would NOT be a plugin as it is here but an entire seperate entity and store fees and  fines would be part of the associated income. 


Even though we cant promise a regular salary to team members we will provide some kind of residual benefit at some point in order to make it worth their time in that way. 


I do however feel that we may want to take this conversation away from here at some point as to not cause issues.  

dave Team
dave Aug 20

And yes patricia there is much work to be done.. However if we can get something out even if its a simpler form at first then it will help people to feel better that something is happening.  Shy of that its all been just talk ya know and i am as guilty as anyone. But i promised everyone that i would make something happen and i will. 


If people can see it, feel it, touch it, then they start believing in it.  So even without all the features if  we can get something out to the world i think that will go a long way to being successful at helping others and being popular. 


I appreciate everyone that is on board and everyone can offer help as patricia stated  :)



The Forum post is edited by dave Aug 20
David
David Aug 20
Dave, if it'll help... I do have several servers here and access to others with different configurations... and one thing i CAN do is beta-test the crap outta things. I will gladly do that if it'll help.
dave Team
dave Aug 20
Thanks Dave, we will eventually need a dedicated server but that is down the road a bit, that is good to know.. :)
Ken
Ken Aug 21
Because y’all turn this forum into a butt kissing contest nothing will be done. GitHub oxwall is alway in motion by great coders. But did you ask Emil if you can take over ...will he give you the keys but you might crash us into more errors maybe lol anyways having some developers contacts is great because I still can contact some developers thru email for some help that’s no longer into oxwall because of the lack of development and unfairness. Maybe Facebook or some site giant probably paid him off to stop oxwall Completely because it is a great competitive script so if u believe in this script make it your own because this precious script could be extinct soon and Dave might be the Only oxwallian Left lol
Ken
Ken Aug 21
1.8.7 is up and running GitHub got it because Some oxwall staffs are too far on the left side and not fair with developers to understand oxwall...

Most coders are taking action on GitHub because there’re no site or plugin blockers



Zip file removed by moderator

The Forum post is edited by dave Aug 21
dave Team
dave Aug 21

Ken sadly that version is not a officially released version.  And so its not a good idea to send that out to people from this forum.  If they want it they can go to github and get it, we have no control over that.  But they should not get it from here because its not an official release. :)  I have removed the zip from your post...


I did ask him to let me take it over and he never replied. As i said above he has had every opportunity to say or do something, even if it is to say "hold on guys im thinking". But he stays silent. To me that says it all....


So we have to make plans for the worst, unfortunate, sad, but its reality.

Morena Milani
Morena Milani Aug 21
Quote from dave

Ken sadly that version is not a officially released version.  And so its not a good idea to send that out to people from this forum.  If they want it they can go to github and get it, we have no control over that.  But they should not get it from here because its not an official release. :)  I have removed the zip from your post...


I did ask him to let me take it over and he never replied. As i said above he has had every opportunity to say or do something, even if it is to say "hold on guys im thinking". But he stays silent. To me that says it all....


So we have to make plans for the worst, unfortunate, sad, but its reality.

I'm with you Dave, I'm not a programmer or a developer but for whatever I am there for a new project.  I invested with Oxwall and I'm sorry to close my site since I have been transferring it to a dedicated server for two years to give more space and speed 
Ken
Ken Aug 21
If oxwall follows Wordpress practice Oxwall would be the Best but that’s not the case. A wise man once told me if want to be successful You must Observe and learn from the successful ones 
dave Team
dave Aug 21
+1 Ken
Ash
Ash Aug 22
I am not a developer but i will give all support i can, from testing support till great ideas and lots of silly questions which many may miss. I can also rope in seed funds for few developers cost and time once explained the projects dimensions..
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