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Better Plugin Development Tutorial? | Forum

Patricia Zorrilla Leader
Patricia Zorrilla Jan 15 '20

The link to this forum has also been removed from https://www.oxwall.com/ and if you go to "Pricing" OxWall appears as a paid product.

Nor is access to the OxWall demo.

I guess they won't be interested in the plugins we develop.


On the other hand, Dave, OxWall does work with PHP 7.x, only some plugins fail. They create an incredible chaos, for example this one:

https://developers.oxwall.com/store/item/1331

that changes the author of the news in NewsFeed and in the end corrupts the tables of NewsFeed and you have to sacrifice them, however with PHP 5.6 works great.

Too bad because it is the only plugin that provides subcomments, that is, comments to a comment and not just a list of comments.


dave Leader
dave Jan 15 '20
Patricia, im talking out of the box with no mods.  In order to install the software out of the box with php 7.1 you have to make a mod see here.. 


https://developers.oxwall.com/forum/topic/62281


The reason it is working for you patricia is because i assume you changed the php version after install which works fine.  But for someone new they cant even install it on php 7.1+ with that issue unless as it says they either make a mod or they install it with php 5.6.xx and then change their php version.  


And with php 5.6 and 7.1 being deprecated it wont be long until it wont install at all without a mod.  


At that point is when i believe we will see a permanent change to this domain happen. 

The Forum post is edited by dave Jan 15 '20
AppXprt
AppXprt Jan 15 '20
PHP 7.2 EoL is on November 30th, 2020 (10 Months from now) and once that is unsupported, it's over for Oxwall...


Oxwall doesn't even run on PHP 7.3 regardless of how you install it, there will have to be significant updates to the platform or it will entirely die out.


Might as well start making your migration decisions now...

https://www.php.net/supported-versions.php

The Forum post is edited by AppXprt Jan 15 '20
Patricia Zorrilla Leader
Patricia Zorrilla Jan 15 '20

True, Dave, the official installer has not used it.

Looking for this, I see that in https://github.com/oxwall/install it has not been updated since 2016 but in https://github.com/skalfa/install it was updated in February 2019

I have to download all versions of the install and compare them exactly.

Actually there are very few changes from one version of PHP to another.

The OxWall core works but many add-ons do not.

We have two problems:

1) We cannot officially publish patches

2) It costs time and we are few

These problems add to the fact that the download link is no longer available and if it were, the obsolete install would be downloaded, so you will have to find another site to host the entire package with patches already in place.

I'm not going to let OxWall die, my website gives a lot of money and I've been studying it for many years.

Even if I'm left alone, I hope not :)

dave Leader
dave Jan 15 '20
Well patricia i suggest you use some of that money to either keep your site going as is or spend it on something new.  If your site makes that much money then it will continue to make money regardless of what product is behind the login button. As long as you can give users the same or similar features they will be just fine. Maybe a small learning curve for something new but that wont stop them from paying. 


Patricia, think of it this way, what if (this is just hypothetical) oxwall shuts down the free site, the store, and specifically tells people that they are no longer authorized to use the free script and in doing so you are violating their license.   THAT IS JUST A WHAT IF ok  it has not happened.     


Remember if this this domain goes dark then the free script will no longer work regardless because the link in the admin area to their server will be broken.  


The reason i bring that up is that recent moves seem to suggest that they are trying to remove not only access to the free version but also drive people to skadate which users must purchase.  So if that is their plan to drive free script owners to skadate then my guess is that they wont allow any other option.  So it is possible that might happen.  


Then what will you do, will you buy skadate with all that money you make?  Just curious. 


Finally everyone here can only blame themselves, we have been talking about this for over 4 years now and yet noone seems to be prepared at all.  Just like when PHP went from 4 to 5 and 4 was deprecated people waited and made excuses not to do anything to change.  Until all of a sudden one day nothing worked, and then everyone paniced and cussed out php, but php waited years before they took 4 offline.     So if we are all lucky enough to have 10mos then i say spend the time wisely not to save oxwall but to save yourself and your site.  That has to come #1.   That is how your time should be spent. 

The Forum post is edited by dave Jan 15 '20
Patricia Zorrilla Leader
Patricia Zorrilla Jan 15 '20

Of course I can buy a SkaDate license, but my website is not a dating website.

It is a social network, it is a much broader concept and what is most used are the chat rooms that I have bought and integrated.

I don't see Skadate being a better software at all, it seems like an abandoned project. You only have a couple of plugins that are not available for OxWall that are only interesting for dating websites.

I also don't see Elgg and other scripts better, I think I've looked at them all.

If I have to buy an OxWall / Skadate license in the future, I will do it, but I expect software developments ... and there aren't any.

I will continue with OxWall, I will do documentation (that is legal), I will make plugins (it is also legal) and I will publish the patches that I develop for PHP 7.x, only information of the lines to modify and not complete packages.


Senior Developer Leader
Senior Developer Jan 15 '20

What if aliens come and destroy the entire planet?


Unless you have credible proof of oxwall shutting down, please leave the "what if" questions inside a box. Don't start with that paranoia once again (like every year).



Quote from dave

Patricia, think of it this way, what if (this is just hypothetical) oxwall shuts down the free site, the store, and specifically tells people that they are no longer authorized to use the free script and in doing so you are violating their license.   THAT IS JUST A WHAT IF ok  it has not happened.     


They cannot tell you to stop using this script, it is open source. You can save a copy of this open source version of the software forever and nobody can ever force you to pay for it, you can even share it with everybody for free and they can use it as well. That's why open source licenses are so good. 


Plugins? If you have the license of your plugins or make your own plugins, you still can use them legally. (You and I know how, I just don't want to add details here). So, no worries.



Quote from Patricia Zorrilla Bcn

The link to this forum has also been removed from https://www.oxwall.com/ and if you go to "Pricing" OxWall appears as a paid product.

Nor is access to the OxWall demo.

I guess they won't be interested in the plugins we develop.


They can do what ever the please with the software, they can sell it, they can give it for free, they can make a package with software + support, etc. Everything that the CPAL license allows them to do with it. Even you can sell copies of this open source software if you find your own customers, and your customers can resell copies of the copy that you sold them. (I'm talking about Oxwall Software only, not the paid plugins bought in the store). What they can't do is re-license the software under the same current name and version and force you to pay for it.

They want to monetize the website and I'm ok with that, this change in their main page was made a long time ago and I think nobody did notice before and I don't know why. Fact is that my sales this month are equal than same month of 2019, so, no worries in that too.



Quote from Patricia Zorrilla Bcn

I'm not going to let OxWall die

Me either. There is plenty of ways of keep this project alive and making it better everyday, it just needs time and money to do it or volunteers who give their free time into this project.


Why cannot we talk about it in here? 

I can think of 2 reasons right away:

1- "Advertising" your own branch or software in here is not permitted because you are offering for free extra features that they may charge for.

2- This may open security issues and concerns for the Oxwall users who install the new branch. (This is extremely important)


Senior Developer.

The Forum post is edited by Senior Developer Jan 16 '20
dave Leader
dave Jan 16 '20
My intention was to make a point to patricia that unless she has ownership of the domain she or noone else has any control over what they do.  Alot of people say they wont let oxwall die, but unless you have the domain in your pocket then if they turn it off you dont have any control over that.   Maybe they will sell the domain who knows.  


I made it very very clear in my statement that it was only hypothetical and only what if.   Seems noone thinks about the whatif when it comes to oxwall and that has bitten many of us in the past and present.  We keep thinking lets save them.... if they wanted to be saved they would have said so by now. 


So i am not starting any paranoia, i am only trying to put the facts we know into some sort of evidence group, and the evidence supports what i said before, that its "possible". 


The bottom line is i still dont see any action from anyone, but i still see alot of talk!!! Just talk!!!!   So if your going to form a group and make it happen then do it, if not then dont get peoples hopes up, just walk away and be happy with your next adventure.    

dave Leader
dave Jan 16 '20

SD if you remember it was year before last and i asked questions ONLY because their domain was expiring the next day and they had not paid for it.  I dont talk without some facts.  Why dont you hang out here more often and help people like you say you do but you dont.  I never ever see your name hardly at all in any of the replies for assistance. If you are making money and busy that is understandable, but you seem to talk alot of talk about helping on the forum and with the script and then you go poof and come back in a month or so later.   If your going to help then help, if not then dont... Bot please dont claim to do something you dont do. 


Besides, i dont have to explain myself to anyone, i do it because i care not because i own anyone an explaination..

Senior Developer Leader
Senior Developer Jan 16 '20
Dave, progress will come soon, just wait for it.


They have the auto-renewal settings ON, they already stated that, I just can't recall in which topic did they told us that 1 or 2 years ago. They need the domain for this store for their Skadate customers, they can't shut it down without a replacement or without moving the store to another domain, they can't move the store to Skadate domain because of "many reasons" (mostly legal), their only option if they want to keep selling skadate is keep the Oxwall domain alive. The oxwall's core repository  on github was updated on December. So, I repeat, no need to start this topic once again.


Please let's keep it positive. All I see is good things ahead.


Senior Developer.

The Forum post is edited by Senior Developer Jan 16 '20
dave Leader
dave Jan 16 '20
SD Fair enough, i agree.. :)
dave Leader
dave Jan 19 '20
Well i stand corrected in my statement, it does appear (thanks Chris W) that the script and plugins will work without the connection to Oxwall. It seriously limits your options, and new plugins wont work if installed, only pre existing plugins will work.  
dave Leader
dave Jan 19 '20
I had a thought today, that what if they just moved the store to a skadate server, they could still support skadate customers and its not that hard to move store files.   They would probably lose the SEO benefits but really nothing surprises me much anymore.  But one thing for sure, whatever is going to happen it will happen eventually, that could be nothing or it could be something big..  Who really knows anymore... 
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